Episode 561 | Launching on Product Hunt and DIY vs. DFY

Rob: Welcome back to Startups for the Rest of Us. Today I talked with one of the co-founders of Postaga about launching on Product Hunt, having it done-for-you service in addition to a DIY self-service SaaS app, growing to a team of six people, having a free plan, and doing a ton of customer development in the early days. Postaga is an outreach tool that helps you build links, get on podcasts, and do all types of things. It’s a pretty interesting app. You should check it out, postaga.com.

But before we dive into that, I want to let you know that MicroConf tickets are on sale. You should head to microconf.com. Assuming we haven’t sold out by the time this goes live, we have five events in five weeks in September and early October, ranging in locations from Croatia to London, to Boston, to Portland and Austin, Texas. We’re super excited. I’m super excited to get back to these events in person. I hope to connect with you if you make it out to one, microconf.com to check that out.

With that, let’s dive into my conversation with Andy Cabasso of Postaga. Andy, thanks so much for joining me today.

Andy: Thanks, Rob.

Rob: Yeah, it’s great having you. Folks already heard in your intro a little bit about Postaga. There’s a lot of interesting parts to your story, so this is an easy story to tell. One of the interesting things is that you and your co-founder Sam were roommates—freshmen year in college—then you wind up starting an agency and he had done freelance work in the past. You started this agency really intelligently in the sense that you asked for a recurring revenue. You asked retainers and it made it a sellable asset. You sold that in 2016, you stuck around for a few years with an earn out but in essence, selling that agency gave you the revenue to live on as you guys started building Postaga in 2019.

Andy: That’s right. The recurring model for an agency came about because my co-founder Sam was doing freelancing. When we talked about working together and building an agency, one of the big challenges about growing an agency is the fact that for a lot of web design projects, you do them as one-offs. There’s no recurring revenue component to it, which means that every month you have to constantly look for new clients. If you take a vacation, take a break, you might not have cash flow, you may not have more revenue coming in.

Every client that we are taking on has to have a recurring revenue component to it for, at the very least, some support in hosting and maintenance, or having a marketing service like paid search or SEO to it. That allowed us, with every single client that we added to our book, that increase in our recurring revenue, so we could have a month (potentially) where we didn’t make any sales and we’d still be able to pay our bills, pay ourselves, pay our team, and help us grow. That helped us also have a business that was worth something that we could sell in the end.

Rob: That’s one of the downsides of consulting, usually. I ran a micro agency myself. I was both a freelancer and a consultant, and I had some other contractors helping me. On the first of the month, if I don’t have any projects, suddenly I have zero revenue. As I got into software and I built one time sale software, that was also the same thing. We made $5000 or $10,000 this month and in the next month your recurring revenue was zero, in essence, so you had to start over.

That’s actually a component of Postaga today. We’ll dive into that later, but you have both the do-it-yourself self-service SaaS aspect of Postaga and then you have the done-for-you aspect, which is in essence a productized service that you bundled up pretty ingeniously, I think. On your homepage, your H1 is ‘Postaga, A Better Way to Build Links.’ Then the H2 so to speak is, ‘Are you still doing manual outreach? Postaga’s AI Outreach Assistant will change the way you build traffic to your site.’

I remember the very first time I came across your site. It was when you applied for TinySeed. I clicked through and I was trying to figure out what this tool does? For folks who are trying to figure out how to explain a product that I think could go in a lot of different directions and explain something that’s relatively complicated, your features pages are pretty well done. You break it down into just a handful of things.

There’s opportunity finders, a content analyzer, contact finder, automatically personalized emails, outreach assistant. You drop it in and each of them is a little animated GIF of you actually scrolling through the product. It shows a lot in not a lot of time or space, frankly.

Talk to me, who’s behind this features page? Did you model it after something or did you just come up with it?

Andy: It was definitely an iterative process. I will give all the credit to Sam for that because in explaining Postaga, the best way to describe it is it’s an all-in-one platform that combines the concept of several different tools that people often use for doing link building or cold outreach. It helps you prospect to find relevant websites, bloggers, or podcasters to connect with, then it finds their contact information, their emails, and verifies those email addresses, then builds and sends personalized email sequences to them.

That’s a lot to convey but also not just conveying the feature aspect of it but the benefit of how this saves you time over your traditional process and other tools that you are using. I feel like six months from now, even a few months from now, our homepage and our website is going to look different from where it is today as we’re honing in more on what the most popular use cases are. Making sure that if you have no idea what we’re doing that in a few seconds you get it.

Rob: Yeah, that’s the idea of it. What SaaS stuff does change so quickly as you add features, that you can actually become a different product. I think back in the days of Drip where first we were an email capture widget and that was really it. We were autoresponders. And then it’s like we’re full blown ESP. Eight months later, we’re a full marketing automation provider. They weren’t pivots, it was just a progression as we added more functionality.

I was pretty bad at this in terms of revisiting what my positioning is. What does my headline say? What does my feature page say? Am I really communicating this properly? To give folks an idea of your stage or your size, some founders give MRR, some founders give team size. What can you share with us?

Andy: As of recently, we are six full-time team members. A few team members working on our service offering, a few team members working on marketing including myself, and my co-founder, Sam, is focusing on product.

Rob: Cool, so a team of six with a small amount of burn (I think) is how I’d phrase it. Obviously, you took funding from us at TinySeed during the current batch, spring 2021. Let’s roll back and talk about your beta. You start working on it in 2019 after you leave the agency. You went into what you called beta in January of 2020 right before Covid hit us, just about 18 months ago.

You started using your own software to reach out because part of Postaga is it’ll scan through your own content, figure out who you’ve mentioned, like you said pull up their emails, validate them and then you can use it to send these campaigns. It can look through RSS feeds. It’ll look through all kinds of stuff. You can go to the site if you want to see it, but there’s a bunch of ways to get people who are likely to link to you, and then it gets their information then it allows you to contact them through the tools basically.

Andy: What we were doing when we were testing out to make sure it worked but also to get us our earliest users is I was using it in a way that maybe that was not one of our original intentions. I was basically using one of the features of it, which is this more broad search functionality to search for marketing agencies and people in digital marketing all around the world, finding their info, and hitting them up with a cold email, more of a sales pitch than anything else saying, is your digital agency trying to build links to improve your rankings or do that for clients? I have a piece of software that could maybe help you out. We’re in beta and. We’re happy to let you use it for free if you can give us some feedback.

That got us our earliest users. We got a lot of feedback on our onboarding process, which in the beginning in hindsight was very cumbersome, but that early feedback in the interim really helped us improve our product, helped us figure out our direction. It helped to build our audience before we did our big launch on Product Hunt in May of that year.

Rob: I like it when a company can use its own product. I remember when Drip got enough functionality that we were able to move off of MailChimp and start using it. I have respect for MailChimp, but it was a super cool feeling to be like we have everything we need now and it’s our own product. I love the idea of not only that you’re able to use it in your beta but taking this idea. Especially, developer types don’t want to do cold outreach. They don’t want to do any type of outreach. They just want the product. They want to build a great product and have it sell itself, which just never happens. It’s just a pipe dream.

Andy: If you know anyone who that works for, please let me know. I have many questions, mainly just how? What is it that you’re doing that sets you apart from every other founder I know that’s constantly trying? Like, I built a product. I think it’s great. The people who are using it, who know about it, think it’s great. How do I find more people?

Rob: That’s a big thing. What did you learn? You launched on Product Hunt in May, between January and May, you’re doing cold outreach. You have this product. No one’s paying for it. You have zero revenue. Again, you had the agency, still had payouts coming from that sale to keep you guys afloat. What did you learn in those five months that then was like, now, we’re ready to launch.

Andy: We had a lot of assumptions going in that were tested from our earliest users, like what they are using Postaga for? What it’s most popular features were? Also just the workflow and the onboarding process in particular. A bunch of our earliest users’ feedback was getting signed up as a whole thing. Even though it’s free, there are a lot of hurdles to it. We had to get users to connect their email addresses and email accounts via either SMTP or via setting up DNS records. No one wants to set up DNS records to be able to use a product. We had to really handhold people to get them set up so they could see what the product could do.

We changed our onboarding tour and setup so that people could get a glimpse of what it could provide for the user to get them to move forward and sign up and activate their accounts basically. But beyond that, we did a lot of interviews with our earliest users to find out how they were using it. How their workflows before Postaga compared with Postaga.

We found that a lot of evangelists who loved us and would promote us to everyone they knew. But there were some agencies we were hoping would switch from whatever the process was to Postaga even if they had a more manual time and labor-intensive process. We realize some of these agencies, even though processes are inefficient, if you’re a larger agency—like for any enterprise company; there’s an early good lesson—there can be a lot of inertia. With enterprise companies, you have to get a lot of people’s buy-in to move it forward. That was a good lesson also in terms of helping us figure out our positioning.

Rob: That’s interesting. It sounds like amazing learning, especially around onboarding and realizing if you had not done that and you had instead just launched on Product Hunt or done a bunch of marketing, you would have just bled a bunch of people out and it would’ve been wasted effort. How did you know to do that? It sounds like you went about it pretty methodically and pretty intelligently, but why did you and Sam decide to do that five-month beta and do interviews with that many customers? Because a lot of people who are launching a SaaS company don’t do that.

Andy: Actually at first, we were planning this in hindsight and talking to you now, it sounds a lot more methodical than it was. The real story is that we were originally planning for a launch in January, but we encountered an issue where we realized if we did very well on Product Hunt, it would crash our entire platform. And that’s no good.

Sam was working on plugging that up and making sure that we would be able to scale the platform as we would have more and more simultaneous users. While he was working on that, I was focusing on getting more and more feedback from the beta users so that we could, in the meantime, figure out what else we can be improving upon before this launch.

At this point, I know that our lunch can be a few months away. What is the best use of our time and my time in the meantime? It turns out I think that was the right call.

Rob: And it sounds like a really good partnership between the two of you to have a developer, technical co-founder, and then it sounds like you’re doing marketing, sales, and everything else.

Andy: Everything else, yeah.

Rob: That’s it. It’s a great division of labor if you can swing it. Okay, so we flashed to May of 2020, you wound up being the number one product of the day and the number two product of that week. You got 1279 upvotes. Listeners have to be wondering how you pulled that off.

Andy: This was very intentional in terms of our approach. We knew that Product Hunt was going to be the platform that we launched on. I could focus on content marketing and other marketing channels to hopefully steadily grow our user base and our audience, but we want to have a really big kick-off to get us in front of as many people as possible in a very short amount of time to help us get this momentum.

We studied Product Hunt. I looked at what apps were the top ones of the day, top ones of the week. What was their approach and how did that differ from some of the other products? What did they do that help them stand out? For example, when you go to the Product Hunt home page, you’ll see a variety of different products and apps and things like that. They all have tag lines and a lot of them have GIFs.

We’re like, we need maybe an eye-catching gif, a good tagline hook, and on our actual interior page, really good sales-y copy that we workshopped and workshopped, share with people and get feedback on, but also having a video that is an explainer that’s less than a minute. Images and screenshots that are not screenshot, they’re annotated images so you can get a sense and really understand what the product does very quickly.

We also spoke with a bunch of people who had successful Product Hunt launches. I just cold reached out to a bunch of people and ask for introductions when I knew someone who knew someone to get their feedback and learn about what it was that they think that they did right. That gave us a whole lot of intel to figure out what we would need to do a successful launch.

Things like making sure that you launch at 12:01 AM Pacific Time when the new day on Product Hunt starts. Really trying to drive to your audience and people that you know to up-vote you as early on as possible because before things shake out and the leaderboard for the day is established, it’s a free-for-all, basically.

If you have one of the most up-votes or the most up-votes, you’ll show up on the leader board when it all sorts out a few hours into the day. But by virtue of you being on one of the top ones of the day, you’re going to be also more likely to get more up-votes because you’re going to be one of the first things that people see, they’re going to check you out, and maybe they’ll up-vou.

It was an all-hands-on-deck situation with me and Sam to make sure that this launch would be as successful as it could be. I know some people who don’t give that much attention are like, all right, I’ll launch at Product Hunt. I’ll see how it goes. I don’t care if it’s not successful. But being that it was going to be one of our core marketing endeavors for helping us launch, we spent a lot of time investing into it.

Rob: Yeah, and someone listening to this, I want you to realize you have to spend a ton of time. Once again, I’d use the word methodical and pretty disciplined about it. Not just expecting, build a great product and it’ll work. I’m going to go have all these conversations. I’m going to go study Product Hunt. I’m going to rally my friends and colleagues around it. Sometimes, it’ll work and just as easily you could have done this and not have the amazing success that you did of being the number one and number two for the week.

But the folks who I’ve seen make Product Hunt work like you did. They do the right things. They usually don’t stumble into it. It’s that hard work, luck, and skill thing I always say. There’s some luck involved, but it sounds like you built some skill up by asking people and then you put in the hard work to do it well.

Similarly, Derek Reimer with SavvyCal did a Product Hunt launch just about six or seven months ago now. He did a lot of the same tactics you did and also had success with it. I guess my question for you then is was it worth it? You did get all these up-votes, you obviously got a lot of eyes on your product, and you only had a free plan at the time. We should be specific. This was May. You didn’t start charging until August. You had a free plan. Was the Product Hunt launch from your perspective worth doing?

Andy: Absolutely. From that Product Hunt launch, it really helped us just build an audience right off the bat. People that were super interested in following our journey also gave us a bunch of feedback early on, to compound on the feedback that we already had and help us really figure out the direction of the product. We got a few people to reach out about investing in Postaga, which was cool. When we’re in beta mode and just having a lot of one-to-one conversations with people who are not paying for our product but giving us feedback, we’re at the stage of like I hope this works. We think there’s a market for it. We’ve done some research. We’ve done our market research and we think we have people who are going to be interested in paying for it.

But, as a startup founder, early stage, there’s always a little bit of doubt. I hope that I’m building something that people want to buy and are willing to pay for. That feedback that we got from Product Hunt was definitely a high point on the emotional roller coaster of running a startup. That really helped us get a bunch of feedback, gave us a push that we needed and helped us move towards some features that we were looking for. Also, got us to take the next time investment for me and my co-founder to monetize it.

Rob: I tweeted something a few weeks ago that venture-funded companies fail or shut down when they run out of money, but bootstrapped companies shut down when they run out of motivation. Managing your own motivation as a bootstrapped or mostly bootstrapped founder is a big thing. It’s your psychology. It’s keeping that interest and keeping the energy and just keeping the desire to move forward. It sounds like Product Hunt was a big moment for you guys to keep going which is interesting because if I were going to do it, if I could pick it, I would want to be able to charge by the time I did that. What was around that decision?

Andy: In hindsight, I absolutely wished we would have had our e-commerce functionality ready by then. It would have pushed our launch back further. It was from when we did our launch in mid-May to us having our paid tiers in mid-August, that was time that Sam had spent developing and adding that functionality. It took some time. Our thinking was let’s do this launch on Product Hunt. Let’s make sure that we are making the right call here, and this is something that we think can have some traction and can be worth our future, time and effort, and investment into.

In hindsight, though, knowing everything that we know now, I really wish we would have had e-commerce set up because we had this big interest in May. We kept everyone that signed up on our email list and on our newsletter and in our market automation software. By the time we hit people up to get them to upgrade to a paid plan in August, the numbers that we did were not as high as I was hoping they would be—in full transparency—probably because some of that enthusiasm slowed down in the months in between.

Rob: When you say e-commerce functionality, you mean billing, paid tier, having a paid tier that you can charge through Stripe, presumably. It took you a couple months. I was going to ask that by the time he got billing in place, did you convert as many as you’d hope? Did you convert a lot of people? It sounds like you did okay, but not great.

Andy: I think okay but definitely was less than I was hoping for. Another part of that founder emotional roller coaster there.

Rob: I’m curious what you think would have happened, pure conjecture? You spent this time building it. You spent this time researching Products Hunt. You did all “the right things.” What if the Product Hunt launch had flopped? What do you think you would have done next?

Andy: It would have probably been a tough conversation between me and my co-founder, like I can’t believe he invested all this time in this product and it’s just not getting the traction that we’re hoping for. Either something fundamentally has to change with how we’ve built this and how we’re marketing it. Maybe it’s time to roll it up and pivot and focus on something else. That would have definitely been a tough conversation to have.

Rob: You had the free plan then and you still have a free plan today, correct?

Andy: Yes.

Rob: Folks, today, you have a $99 pricing tier, you have an agency plan that’s $299 a month and then you have the done-for-you service with contact us. That’s where you’re actually doing outreach for people. What is the free plan doing for you these days that you keep around?

Andy: The free plan exists partly as a lead magnet so that people sign up, they have a free trial and there is a free plan so they can test out Postaga more at their pace, be able to build some outreach campaigns, get some results and hopefully see that it’s worth it that we’ve got some responses. Now we’ve gotten some good opportunities. We’ve got some either links or guest post opportunities or podcast guest spots. But I want to be able to do more of that. That’s where upgrading your paid plan comes in. When people sign up, we have email automation sequences designed to get people to upgrade.

One thing that we are looking into and testing and AB testing is that the best option, I don’t have the answer for you today, we’re testing out different things and seeing what works, and maybe in a future episode I can give you a full rundown of these different variants that we’ve tried and how they performed. There’s a credit card trial best. There’s a free trial with a freemium best. There’s no trial but like a money back guarantee best, we’re going to be really trying out all these things.

Rob: When I hear you talk about the free plan it makes a lot of sense with your tool because Ruben Gomez has his rules of when to have a free plan and when not. He said number one, if your product is a relatively low cost to support each customer, there’s no incremental cost of them sending emails or them doing whatever, low cost to support, easy onboarding, self-onboarding basically, and it’s quick to get value from, you think about some products. You sign up for SalesForce. You’re not going to get value the first few days. It’s going to take you months to integrate and do this and all that. Then a viral component can be a big part of that. Does Postaga have a viral loop?

Andy: Yes and you would know that because you have been on the receiving end.

Rob: That’s right, I have.

Andy: For everyone listening, in Postaga’s free plan, there is a footer in your email signature that says PS sent with Postaga. Some people have pitched Rob to be guests on this podcast using Postaga.

Rob: That’s true. It’s so cool to see it in a while. Once you apply it and the name sinks and we decide to find you, I started noticing that and it’s pretty cool.

Andy: Yeah. We’ve noticed that some people sign up clicking that email signature, so that’s a win. That’s another channel for us that helps spread the word more.

Rob: Last month, I won’t go into specifics but you had an amazing month of growth last month. What’s working for you? What caused that?

Andy: I’m going to put that entirely on the TinySeed program.

Rob: Wow. This was not a plan for ladies and gentlemen listening to the show. That’s super cool. What specifically?

Andy: TinySeed has been great so far. We’ve been speaking with a ton of mentors over the last few months. People who are much more experienced than I am in different facets of running a business and scaling it. For example, having spoken with Einar and yourself to get feedback on pricing and churn, we’ve been able to make tweaks to things that have helped us grow faster. There are a few levers, as you’ve told us, that help with growth. Increasing pricing, reducing churn, and finding more customers. We’ve been really honing in on each of these levers to optimize and improve them as much as possible.

Beyond that, I’ve been trying to speak to as many of the mentors in the TinySeed program as possible, getting feedback on everything from our copy, to our UX, to our onboarding flow. One thing that some other people in our cohort have suggested just speak with as many mentors as possible because you’re going to get a ton of value out of it, In the first month, I probably didn’t speak with so many mentors but in the last two months, in particular—we’re almost at the end of our third month here—I’ve just been trying to speak with as many mentors as possible because there’s been so much value that we’ve gotten out of it.

As anyone building their own startup and trying to grow it, you go through a lot of iterations, AB testing, and trying to figure out what are the right channels for us. To some extent, we’re doing that now. But we’re getting a lot of great feedback from people who have done these experiments before, who have been through these things, who can give us just straight up feedback telling us, don’t do this. This is a bad idea. Here’s what you should be focusing on. Here is the most important thing that you should be focusing on. Here’s how to execute on that. That’s been just so incredibly valuable.

Rib: That’s awesome. I mean, thanks for saying that. That’s how it’s supposed to work. That’s the point of having mentors. That’s point A for us because at one point, Einar and I said let’s just raise a fund and invest in early stage startups. We saw the value in having a batch that could interact with one another, have the community, and then have the mentor program and all the advice that we can get. If that’s what it’s doing for you, then it’s working like we wanted to and that’s great.

But I think someone listening to this who may not want to join an accelerator or whatever, they can still take value away from being in a mastermind or being in a community like MicroConf Connect, or in the Dynamite Circle, or part of IndieHackers where there are other people around you who are going to that same journey and you can learn from them. You’re going to make a lot of mistakes anyway. You have to make every mistake on your own. You can learn from other people’s mistakes which is a much less expensive way to do it, both monetarily and time wise.

Andy: Absolutely. Masterminds have been something that I’ve been involved with since maybe 2014 or so and I really saw the value of those because like you’re saying, I could talk to other founders that are either similarly situated or hopefully further along than I am to just give advice and help us avoid some of the pitfalls so we can get further along faster. Having masterminds has been just super helpful.

It’s an easy thing that you could do. I’ve had masterminds through MicroConf, other programs also in years past I was doing. But there’s been something really helpful about speaking with people who in particular are much further along than you, who can give you advice of here are the things that I would do if I were in your situation. You’ve got a problem, you have a problem with hiring, or you have a problem with employee retention, or with growth, here are the things that I would do and here are my suggestions for you. That’s been just so incredibly helpful over the years. Helping me get unstuck without having to try out different things and see how they fix things.

Rob: That’s something that I learned when I used to work a day job, 15 years ago-ish, I didn’t like a lot of my coworkers. I was trying to push things forward and there would be roadblocks and bureaucracy. I remember just saying like I don’t want to work with people ever again. I’m going to be a solo founder and micropreneur. I’m going to go be on my own and I’m going to do it on my own and I did

It was not as good as the later on when I realized I actually want people to be in a mastermind. I want colleagues. I want to work with other people. It’s not that I don’t like working with other people. I don’t like working with other people that I can’t hand pick and choose who I get to work with, who I get to be managed by, or who I get to manage. There’s so much value in community. That was the other thing, try to do it on your own.

I’m belaboring the point at this point but there is a reason MicroConf exists, MicroConf Connect exists, this podcast exists, and TinySeed exists. There’s a reason for all of them and it’s because they bring people together in one way, shape, or form that it just upstarts all of our games. It’s how I view it. It’s a rising tide that raises all of the boats involved. To me that’s just a win all around.

As we start to wrap up, I do have one more question for you. You are in a unique position because you’ve built a SaaS app, $100–$300 a month. It’s a great business. It’s growing and that’s the do-it-yourself side. It’s the people who can sign up and do the link outreach and make that all work. You also have a done-for-you service.

I can imagine someone listening thinking they might want to do that as well. Because obviously it has a much higher price point. You can grow MRR quicker. Or someone might be thinking I really don’t want to do that. I don’t want that service side of the business.

As someone who has not only run an agency with your recurring revenue, now runs a SaaS app with recurring revenue, and also a productized service essentially attached to it, talk to me about why the two of you have decided to have the done-for-you side, and maybe the pros and cons of that.

Andy: I guess it’s funny in a fatalistic way that I sell an agency, build a SaaS app because it’s going to be completely self-service—people can sign up—and we just increase our MRR by not speaking with people necessarily to adding a service component that is very handhold-y, where there is a bigger labor component to it that we’re providing. The reason that we offer it was because we were getting interest in it from our users.

Some of our users are saying to us, I very much like the idea of Postaga but I am the solo founder of this business. Even with all the time-saving that I’m getting from Postaga, I don’t have the time for it. Do you know anyone, a consultant or someone who could basically use Postaga for us, to help us get more opportunities and links for our business?

Besides that, we were having churn and one of our responses that we are getting in one of our cancellation questionnaire things was, I just don’t have the time to get into Postaga. We realized if this is one thing that’s contributing to our churn, what can we do to save that? We are contemplating whether to outsource completely, to just refer people to people that we knew that do link building, or either have an agency that was using Postaga that we could refer to, or bring it in-house.

I don’t know what the future holds if we’re going to be doing this done-for-you forever, but there were a few things that we saw as a benefit to it. One, we would get hands-on experience with doing outreach for a variety of business types with a variety of founders, and doing right outreach campaigns for other businesses to see what’s working well for them, what responses are we getting. Because mostly we’ve been doing outreach on behalf of Postaga. I’ve been doing outreach to help us build our own links, to get me guest spots on podcasts, and help us do press outreach.

But being able to do it for other clients would give us a bunch of insights to help us also improve the product further by having that variety of experience there. We thought there’s a plus there. If we add the service component, obviously we’re going to also get more revenue—that’s a win there—and having the service component also would help us internally get more feedback and see what improvements can be made to the product, and what we can do to help other people using the do-it-yourself option as well.

There was just a lot of upside that we saw to it. We ran a pilot program so that I can build out the processes. We started with one company who wanted to get more press coverage and visibility in their industry in their space. We did outreach for them to get them podcast guest spots and get other blogs to review their product. The campaigns that we did end up doing very well. It was something that I had no familiarity with that kind of product or space beforehand. But from that pilot program, I built out SOPs and documentations, so it could be a repeatable process that I could do with clients moving forward.

Then we built up an additional page on our website for the done-for-you service. Today, we really haven’t been advertising it heavily—that might change in the future—but people have been reaching out to us about it through that page, and also just reaching out to us just on their own to say I like the product, but do you have anyone you can recommend that I could either bring on or can help me do that. It was a great addition to our product.

Rob: As we wrap up, if folks want to keep up with you, you are Andy Cabasso on Twitter, and of course postaga.com is what you’re working on. Thanks again for joining me.

Andy: Thanks, Rob. It’s been fun.

Rob: Thank you for joining me once again this week. We’ll be back in your ear buds again next Tuesday morning.